*✦⋆ GLASTONBURY 2024 ⋆✦⋆ Interview with Oppidan
18 June 2024
The University of Manchester’s Musica Festival returned this year, emphatically showcasing the role of women in music with a week’s worth of events across Manchester. The student run festival aims to “make a positive impact on the gender gap in the music industry” having ran successfully for three years. To end the week, the newly formed Musica Collective, an all-woman jazz ensemble, hosted a Jazz jam at the Feel Good Club offering a refreshing alternative in the hardline culture of jams and public performance. The group consists of bass guitar (Amy Browne), vocals (Betsey Bircumshaw), trombone (Emily Nicolas), saxophone (Grace Hillier), drums (Isla Hutchins) and keys (Mimi Sheikh). As well as through the lineup, their setlist marked out their unique edge gliding from smooth, silky standards to the grooviest take on Uptown Funk you will ever hear ending their set with a truly captivating rendition of Radiohead’s Weird Fishes/Arpeggi. I caught up with the band after their set to talk about the festival and gender diversity in the music industry.
So how did this collective come about?
Amy: Every year as part of the Manchester University Music Society and department we have the Musica Festival which celebrates women and non-binary musicians and the past two years there’s been a jazz jam. I actually wasn’t supposed to be doing it, but it just got chucked on me! At the start of this year, I was like okay I need an all women, gender diverse house band and then went clawing my way through all social circles being like “do you know any women?” I had to ask a lot of people which is ridiculous because it would be so nice if there was just more women in jazz but it makes events like this special.
Will this become a regular ensemble with more gigs in the future?
Amy: Yeah, actually we’re supporting another jazz group, Quadzilla, at Retro on the 22nd of March which will be fun.
Isla: We’re talking about trying to start a bimonthly jazz jam which would be fun since it doesn’t currently exist in Manchester. I don’t think there’s any other all-female jazz bands in Manchester so we’re hoping to carry on.
What issues that women face in the music industry don’t get mentioned enough, things that men may not be aware of?
Isla: It’s subconscious bias which has been ingrained in people’s minds, it’s the cast and crew around the musicians especially. Even if you’re an all-female band, do you then have female sound engineers, lighting engineers – it doesn’t exist. When you go to jazz jams especially, it’s so much seen as this masculine thing, everyone feels judged if they’re a woman at a jam and most of the time there will only be one female at a jam if you’re lucky. I’m about to go to a conservatoire and I’ve been told there’s no other female drummers there so that’s lovely! There’s this whole idea of going to a jam as a woman, you’re just instantly judged, you’re singled out, you’re the only one there and if you play badly, it’s fine because you’re “only a girl” and if you do good then you’re good “for a girl” – just let me be good! This sort of event shouldn’t have to exist, it exists because something is wrong.
Mimi: I’ve had so many experiences in rehearsals where I feel like I’m just stood at the side. I’ll say something and the guys will communicate to each other and literally block me out of the circle and it’s so uncomfortable and so demoralising. I think events like this bring together amazing groups of people and we all feel more supported and more understood and that is so important because it impacts your musicality, it affects how you perform and how you create music for yourself.
Isla: With jazz, when guys play, a lot of it is quite soft and guys will have to tune into this “feminine” side to actually express the emotion which makes it seem polar opposite for these guys to be misogynistic to then go and play this beautiful music. How do you play this emotional, heartfelt music but you can’t accept a girl on the stage?
Emily: In terms of marketing yourself as an all-female group, there’s challenges that come along with that as well. Obviously, it’s super important that we do this so people can recognise that we’re trying to take a step in the right direction and trying to show that it can be done. But the unconscious bias within society is immediately going to cause a reaction from seeing us being an all-female group and people will go “ew why would I wanna go see that?” That’s the struggle, trying to get audiences who are equally as diverse to understand that women do have a place in jazz, and we deserve to be here as much as anybody else.
What can be done to remove the power imbalances between men and women created by the freelance nature of the industry?
Isla: It’s hard to regulate the industry because it’s so self-employed. Everyone gets in these scenes that are really driven by this indie “lad” culture, especially in Manchester. It’s difficult when it’s so self-run with no one regulating it which means these misogynist scenes are really hard to tackle.
Amy: You have the Musician’s Union so at least there is something.
Emily: For me it’s always been a little different because I’m a classical trombonist and a lot of the work that I want to do in the future will be classically based. The differences I see between orchestras and jazz, firstly, is the audition process. Most orchestral auditions are screened these days, so you already rid the process of that initial bias. The Jazz industry is even more freelanced, a lot of the work you’ll get in the classical world comes from if you are a nice person, if can you play well that’s all there is to it but with Jazz, I feel like it’s not what you know it’s who you know. When those connections are there between the “lads” it’s really hard to find a space for yourself and to prove that you are worthy of being there without doing something like an audition. That’s a big plus in the classical world, you get opportunities to showcase what you can do in a non-judgemental, non-biased space without a fear of someone saying, “you’re a woman, you’re not going to be right for the job.” I’ve grown up my whole life being the only girl in the section and it’s a constant worry for me, am I playing loud enough, am I matching up to the men. Sometimes you even think to yourself am I playing like a man would because that seems to be what gets you work. That’s why this is so important because it shows people that you don’t have to “play like a man”, you don’t have to express yourself anywhere near one to showcase yourself as a musician and to put your love across to the audience.
There’s this idea that jazz is the more progressive genre and because it’s seen that way nobody thinks any work needs to be done in the industry. Because it’s Jazz and everyone is free to express themselves, it’s gone by the wayside and nobody’s recognising that actually, there is so much work to be done. There’s so many spaces and gaps for people like us to do our work.
Mimi: There’s a difference between the music itself and the sociopolitical environment around it and the culture around it. You could be invested in a piece that has tons of harmony in it and it feels like you’re expressing something but the culture around it is just so toxic that you feel like you can’t really be yourself in that moment.
How much do you feel these issues transcend the music industry and are greater societal issues?
Isla: I was reading a post the other day about how during war time there was this appearance of female big bands because all the men were drafted off to war and then it died away when the men came back and dominated the space again. It’s scary that the only time women were allowed that space was because there was a lack of men to do that job which is seen as a masculine job. Art and creativity aren’t defined by masculinity whatsoever.
Emily: You can look to other parts of the world as well not just the west. We studied this at university where in some traditions, certain instruments, rhythms, and melodies cannot be played by women because they are considered to be traditionally masculine. It goes all the way back to war time even back to the Victorian era, when it was traditional for women to make up a home and look after children. I find really strange that this idea of a men’s space has come into the environment of music when you’re so free and so able to express yourself so it’s really strange to have these gendered ideas about it.
Isla: Even going to study music, with auditions, you’re put against other people just to study it. At all the auditions I went to, there wasn’t a single woman on any of the panels.
Emily: When it’s already so competitive why would men stand up and say actually, we do need more diversity in our spaces because that’s how they make money. It’s almost like, by standing up and saying, “it’s the 21st century it’s time we opened up and actually did something about this”, they would be decreasing their chances of getting work. It’s a twisted, vicious cycle.
Mimi: Even if you can excel as a female musician by going to a conservatoire, I’ve found the environment itself is so crushing. I’ve lost so much confidence just being around male musicians like I mentioned before in rehearsals and it’s so hard at times to remember why you’re there.
Betsey: The main thing in society today is, we are becoming more aware of our intentions and that’s got to continue. We’ve got to constantly ask, why am I doing this, why are they doing that and actually questioning and pointing out different behaviours. This evening has been full of love, with no issues that would make anyone feel anything but good, in the Feel Good Club, and that’s how it’s got to continue. That’s why we make music, especially in this industry, and it has got to come from that passion and love which has got to sit on top.
You can find the Musica Festival online @musica_festival and catch the Musica Collective at their next gig at Retro in Manchester on the 22nd of March, supporting Quadzilla.
